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Post by Theopolis on Nov 1, 2011 1:07:24 GMT -5
The Varcians won't like them, and I question how long until the NPC Graggoth comes looking for complete subservience.
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 1, 2011 1:28:08 GMT -5
Indeed, but a tough game can be fun. And I do have a couple advantages. The Varcians might not like them, but I'm certain the humans prefer a semi-civilied buffer of Orc civilization to a rampaging horde, so I imagine both civilizations will be willing to use the other for their own purposes.
Dealing with Graggoth with be fun. I'll have to play with him as the situation demands. Without allies I'll probably end up paying tribute and sending soldiers to help in his wars, but besides that it'll depend on how much support he has from the other Orcs and such.
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Post by Empire of Ezria on Nov 1, 2011 21:06:59 GMT -5
Could you put mages on board a ships archery platform? Or have them as part of your defense?
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Post by Revolutionary Workers' Union on Nov 2, 2011 0:24:45 GMT -5
Hello hello, friends. Just posting to let you all know I've made an account and am looking into ideas either for yet another Survaek or the United Duchies of Ayar I never got to post. Mechanics look good, just a few suggestions:
-Oligarchy is rather under-powered, not to mention that 5% increased manpower regen just sounds lame compared to Royal Guard or free militia.
-I think a good idea for Despotism's bonus would be increased actions per turn, reflecting the dictator's ability to act on behalf of the nation at his/her whim and fancy.
-We still need pikes, lances, and recurve bows.
-ARTILLERIEZ!
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 2, 2011 1:06:59 GMT -5
Suggestions:
Pikes - Two-handed spears with high offensive ability. Difficult to use well but extremely deadly in tight formation (2-3 Gold)
Spears or pikes should become lances when used by cavalry.
Compound Bows - small, powerful bows good in most situations, especially useful for cavalry. Expensive to make and train with, but no real disadvantage. (3-5 Gold)
I'd also like to see the advantage for Mercantilism soon. It's the only trait I have that could help my economy, and I'm going to need that gold.
And the Royal Guard advantage doesn't really work with the unit creation system. It may have to be reformed.
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 2, 2011 10:09:29 GMT -5
I see you need help with the naval unit loadouts (some of which don't make sense) so here are my ideas:
Hull
Cog: (1 Gold) A small craft built with a single hull. Cogs have flat bottoms and high walls, making them ponderous and more adept at moving cargo than warfare. In times of need they can be adapted to combat.
Galley: (2 Gold) Galleys are long, buoyant vessels with flat keels. They displace around 700 tons and are exceptionally fast and maneuverable, but lack the hull strength and stability to endure prolonged combat.
Carrack: (3 Gold) A Carrack is an oceangoing vessel displacing around 1200 tons with a crew complement in the hundreds. It handles well in all weather but is not particularly agile.
Galleon: (4 Gold) The Galleon is a new design capable of displacing nearly 2000 tons. The ship has high, solid walls and a deep draft, giving it stability and power at the cost of maneuverability. These vessels are the pinnacle of naval technology.
Armament
Boarding Ramp: (1 Gold) A boarding ramp allows a ship to attack an enemy vessel with soldiers once it draws alongside the enemy vessel.
Battering Ram: (2 Gold) Placed just under the waterline on the prow of a ship, battering rams are capable of ripping a ship in half under the right circumstances. A ram's effectiveness depends on a host of factors, such as the speed and angle of the ram.
Siege Engines: (3 Gold) Catapults and Balistae can seriously threaten enemy vessels by firing heavy stones or burning projectiles at the enemy vessel. Lighter siege weapons can also be used to snipe enemy sailors and commanders.
Cannons: (5 Gold) Cannons revolutionize naval warfare. While a catapult might crack a ship's hull, a cannon can rip a hole straight through an enemy vessel. However, cannon are also more inaccurate than siege weapons, and the ship might be aligned correctly for a volley.
Movement
Single Rowers: (1 Gold) A single line of oarsmen will move a ship with relatively little training or expense. But while a single row will move the ship, it is incapable of swift maneuvering or high speeds. In addition, rowers will tire as the battle progresses, reducing the ship's effectiveness.
Lanteen Sails: (2 Gold) Lanteen sails are triangular sails that can catch the wind from any angle. They are far more maneuverable than normal sails while preserving the endurance benefit. However, Lanteen sails are still vulnerable to attack, and they lack the speed advantage of numerous oars.
Mast and Sails: (2 Gold) Mast and Sails provide speed and endurance unrivaled by rowers. Unlike oared vessels, these ships do not get tired or weary as a fight wears on. However, masts and sails also increase a ship's vulnerability, they make tempting targets. In addition, sails lack maneuverability and are only as useful as the wind allows them to be.
Multi-Rowers: (3 Gold) A ship with several floors of rowers can be a nightmare to face. The coordinated efforts of the hundreds of men can pull a 180 degree turn in seconds, or give the vessel an enormous burst of speed. The only disadvantage to this design is the logistic problems of supporting so many rowers, and the reduced effectiveness as the men tire.
Defense
Stretched Hides: (1 Gold) stretched leather hides can be used to defend a ship by absorbing the impact of arrows and other light projectiles, shielding crews. They can also be soaked in water to retard burning projectiles. Unfortunately the hides are useless against anything more damaging than arrows and glancing blows.
Bulkheads: (2 Gold) Building bulkheads into a ship allows the vessel to compartmentalize damage. Minor hull breaches are localized, making it more difficult to sink the ship.
Forecastle: (3 Gold) The Forecastle is an elevated position in the front of the ship, usually several decks tall and defended by parapets. It provides a strong, elevated position for archers to fire from and can be used as a rallying point if the ship is boarded.
Metal Reinforcement: (4 Gold) Armoring key portions of the ship with metal plates can prevent breaches below the waterline and even withstand heavy siege weapons.
Tried to do my research here, but there are a couple anachronisms. I was aiming for the late-middle-ages period of around 1300-1600.
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Post by Theopolis on Nov 2, 2011 10:09:52 GMT -5
1. Pikes; I find, both tangibly and historically the difference between a pike and a spear, besides the presence of an axhead at the end of a pike, to be almost entirely redundant.
2. Spears; They do in fact appear as lances when used in conjunction with cavalry. There is no "Lance" object because lances without cavalry are stupid, it's just implied. Spears + Cavalry = Lancers.
3. Compound Bows; Short Bows.
4. Royal Guards; Great suggestion.
5. Siege Weapon; It's on its way.
6. Despotism; Working on it.
7. Mercantilism; Working on it.
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 2, 2011 12:14:08 GMT -5
I think you're confusing pikes and halberds. Halberds are spears with axeheads on the end. Pikes are extremely long spears - somewhere between ten and twenty-five feet - that were held in two hands. Since they're so long they required a great deal of training to be used right. You can't just stab someone with a pike, it has to be used in a formation. But if they were used right they were highly effective weapons.
Also, I notice that while players can trade resources for gold and vice-versa, there's no way to establish "soft" trade between kingdoms, like basic commerce. Maybe there should be a "Commerce Agreement" action that worked like an alliance, only providing income to both factions instead of military or diplomatic aid?
And I'm just curious, but why is building a wall a military action rather than a construct? It seems like the equivalent military action would be a temporary fort of some kind, rather than actually constructing a wall.
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Post by Theopolis on Nov 2, 2011 13:30:08 GMT -5
1. Halberds/Pikes; Oh yep, you're right! I was wrong. I'll have to do a little research.
2. Commerce Agreement; Because than being isolationist becomes hurtful, and it shouldn't necessarily hurt you. Because people play this game to win instead of RP'ing their kingdom (which is incredibly fucking stupid, because there is no ultimate victory besides the roleplay), they do whatever they can to fill their coffers. So something like this would mean your isolationist High Elves would have to break character in order to stay with everybody else on the economic scale, which is exactly what people would do. If you can legitimately balance it without it becoming an every turn necessity, PM me.
3. Fortifications; It's just a method of distinguishing things. There is an outpost you can build as well.
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 2, 2011 13:42:21 GMT -5
I suppose that makes sense, but it's kind of unrealistic and it destroys a lot of the incentive to do a commerce nation. I was hoping my Orcs would be able to get some kind of income advantage by trading with nations to the south.
Can't think of a way to fix it right now, but I'll definitely start thinking about it.
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 2, 2011 17:06:16 GMT -5
Just noticed a flaw with the way Mercantilism is now. Theoretically you can use it to generate unlimited gold.
Trade all your luxury for gold with another player, get 50% more. Buy back the luxury for the basic price, rinse and repeat. The only limit would be turn actions.
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Post by Theopolis on Nov 2, 2011 21:38:09 GMT -5
Oooh. Good point. Hmm. Let me dwell on it. Good find.
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Talis
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Post by Talis on Nov 3, 2011 5:16:31 GMT -5
Alright, I've thought up a couple possible solutions to your issues with the Commerce Treaty idea.
Suggestion 1: Make commerce agreements more beneficial for one party than the other. The idea with this suggestion is to make uneven trade an issue. You don't just want to accept any deal, because it must help your enemies or hurt your own influence. It also validates the use of "offensive trade" in order to influence enemies. There are a lot of ways to do this. One side could simply make more money, based off some determining factor like relative population or number of cities (one gold per city maybe?). However, the idea I really like is cultural contamination. Trade always brings new ideas with it - so what if commerce agreements spread a country's religion? It could be at a much slower pace than missionaries, but its free and constant instead. This would make Commerce Agreements a major minefield when dealing with religious factions.
Suggestion 2: Make Commerce Agreements a Mercantile ability. In order to make a commerce agreement, one of the factions must have the Mercantile trait. This could be combined with the "uneven trade" idea above if the Mercantile faction gets more out of the trade deal than the other Kingdom. The idea here is that most empires could get away with being isolationist, or trading only what they want. Mercantile would mean that that Kingdom is reliant on international trade. It forces players with the trait to think internationally about relations and enforces a certain playstyle, while allowing other Kingdoms to take a more militant or isolationist stance that could be contrary to mercantile interests.
Suggestion 3: Persistent Trade Agreements. Since players have persistent income, this would be a hybrid of a commerce agreement and a basic trade. Once both factions sign the deal, they will automatically trade a certain amount every turn for a certain number of turns. Probably my least favorite option, but it would work.
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Post by Dronav Holdworlds on Nov 3, 2011 17:54:02 GMT -5
I have an idea for an action
Buy Template- 20G for First additional template, 40G for the second, 80 for the third, ect: allows player to add an additional template past the 8 starting template.
I admit I thought of this because I'm down to my last template and i want to save it for siege weapons. this won't unbalance any thing i think since no matter how many templates you have you can only buy so many units.
Also slave units shouldn't be affected by Professional Army buffs/cons. just an idea other wise someone could build 0G/6M unit and spam them to all hell.
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Post by Theopolis on Nov 3, 2011 20:27:17 GMT -5
1. Unit Templates -- There's a limit to make you choose. Otherwise you can get the best of both worlds.
2. Slavery Trait -- Good idea! Very excellent find, sir!
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